Mr. Engelhardt Goes to Gen-Con

Joe Mahaffey: Hello and welcome back to another edition of Lay It on the Table, the Southern Board Game podcast with the accent on Southern. I am usually your host, Joe Mahaffey, but today I think we're gonna have an extra host with a dinosaur in the background.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, I know. I don't know what that done is for. He's a monster. There's a monster, yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: And of course my other host, other co host.

 

James Engelhardt: James Engelhardt I'm here hanging out. My ⁓ son is in the other room, monstering it up. So yeah. That'll that'll that'll that'll come in and out before he goes to lunch and then takes a little rest. So yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Gotta love it. Gotta love it. That'll be fine. That'll be fine. We're not that kind of podcast that would not accept that. All right. So, ⁓ gosh, James, you know, I gotta tell ya, last time we met, we talked to Frank West and I've been watching the numbers on the analytics, and it's it's a very popular episode. We're getting a lot lessons to that. Other that ⁓ otherwise you and I are just listening to it over and over again. ⁓

 

James Engelhardt: Excellent. Yeah. Yes. Yes. ⁓ good. I do hi hi the sound of his voice is is soothing.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yes. Yes. You're not using it to go to sleep at night, are you?

 

James Engelhardt: Maybe. ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Know my camera went, but I'll bring it back. That was weird. ⁓ could be. But ⁓ but obviously that was ⁓ that was then and this is now, and I have you know gone ahead and given this episode a title. It is Mr. Inglehart Goes to Gen Con.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, there he goes. It's the monster in the other room is is vexing us, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yep. There it is.

 

Joe Mahaffey: So so I know this is the first time you went. I know Frank gave you some really nice advice ⁓ on things to consider, but I would just sort of love to, you know, spend this time today kind of getting your impression of Gen Con.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Sure. I mean, the first thing I want to mention before we dive too big deep is ⁓ Gen Con, again, record setting number of people, I think 2,000 people over from last year. So a little over seventy yeah, I know, between seventy four and seventy five thousand people. So it was ⁓ unique visitors, and that's the other thing.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Holy cow. Do you do you have a sense of what the volume was like or what the trajectory was like before COVID and is this like a recovery kind of thing? Or yeah. Yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: It is. Yep. We have they have fully recovered and are moving into brand new territory. So hooray for them. They're ⁓ expanding the to another there's a new hotel going up, like right across the street, which made ⁓ made parking a little weird, but ⁓ nevertheless worked well. And so that's going to open space for even more exhibit rooms or at least gathering rooms, and then of course more rooms for ⁓ attendees. So they are looking to keep. ⁓ expanding ⁓ Gen Con over there. ⁓ the recent numbers that I found for a from a local ⁓ media outlet was that Gencom brought in eighty three and a half million dollars for local ⁓ businesses. So that's good too. They're ⁓ Indy's a great host and the attendees are really paying that back. So

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, Indianapolis is a beautiful city. It's very clean, very ⁓ laid out very well. So ⁓ so yeah, so that doesn't surprise me. ⁓ now I I'm sorry, I should know this. You you drove there, you did not fly, is that correct?

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, it's very nice, yeah. Mm-hmm. That is correct. Yeah. So while I appreci appreciated Frank's ⁓ hints on how to get through airports, it was not although although that came up a couple of times, people talked about like going leaving Gencom with stacks of cards and like having to explain everything that was yeah, that was happening. Although they did have and this was fun, the indie airport apparently had tables set up for gamers. So you could go get there early, break out some games and play. So that was kind of a nice touch.

 

Joe Mahaffey: I see. So they I w I was thinking that maybe they had it, you know, figured out to the point that maybe they should revamp the way they do security.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, just let him in. Yeah, come on. Yeah, those ⁓ Kingdom Death ⁓ minis are themselves a weapon, but yeah. ⁓ yeah, no. ⁓ so I did drive in, ⁓ drove in ⁓ with Sky and met her mom there at Stephen Conway's house, which is where I was staying, and from there went down to the went down to the con early, early on. That was Wednesday.

 

Joe Mahaffey: No, jeez. Okay. Now just for context, ⁓ like you were not staying in the middle of Indianapolis, you were staying at a home. How far was the dri how long was the drive to get in and traffic and such?

 

James Engelhardt: Yes. No. Mm-hmm. ⁓ well traffic the first two days was awful because Gen Con attendees plus ⁓ locals and ⁓ and then with the construction various roads were closed off and so I was in the car with the you know the two locals going, ⁓ no no take that one. ⁓ what about this one? ⁓ you know, so there was a lot of like talking through what trips could be and looking at maps and ⁓ negotiating back and forth and I was just sat Going, I don't know where I am. So I will trust people to make good choices. And they did. They, I mean, the first time we went down there, it was clearly a disaster. The second time we got caught up in something. ⁓ and then from then they had the the pattern down of how to get in. ⁓ and there was part of the deal with the construction was that it cut off a north-south ⁓ sort of corridor, right? But the locals, who I was with, knew this little bitty road that looked like it was supposed to be like a walking wall like ⁓ cobblestones, that kind of stuff. Except it was a l road and so we could cruise down that, turn back north, right up the edge where the ⁓ construction was, and ta da parking. W about a block from the convention center. So it was awesome. Yeah, no, ⁓ I really appreciated like I think if I was da there on my own driving my own car around, this would not have been anywhere near that pretty. So

 

Joe Mahaffey: ⁓ wow.

 

James Engelhardt: That was a nice thing. But the traffic otherwise on Saturday, things really cleared out and it was not a problem like getting into town. But we were about fifteen, twenty minutes out, so not too far, ten, fifteen, something like that. ⁓ yeah. I didn't pay too much attention to the ⁓ to the timing, just walk watching Indianapolis go past the window.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Okay, so you got through traffic, you got there. So what surprised you the most the moment you walk into Gen Con?

 

James Engelhardt: We got there. That's an interesting one. I think the thing that was great was that the vibe was there from the beginning, right? It wasn't just like you walk in like, okay, this is going to be a thing going on. Like people were in costumes. ⁓ it was all about games and game language and all of that, like from the very beginning. And so that was it was kind of fun. ⁓ we mentioned this, had com several conversations over the weekend with people who were like, Yeah, I don't have to explain anything about what I do. I play games and everybody is like, cool, which ones? And you're like, ⁓ yeah, I'm a really love worker placement and a good deck builder. Like, ⁓ yeah. So you didn't you could use all the shorthand that you're used to, which was great. ⁓ and not having to explain all of that stuff. ⁓ it was also fun when you would go to a, you know, you'd go to a booth and someone say, Okay, so ⁓ this is a dice placement game and ⁓ with a little bit of ⁓ set collection and recipe fulfillment, you're like, cool. And they didn't even like hesitate to give you these like coded messages. Like, okay, yeah, I don't seeing the stuff. Okay, great. Yes, let's run. So ⁓ and I think it felt like a large ⁓ academic conference. I go to a couple I've been to several large ones that have in the twelve to fifteen thousand people. ⁓ and on Wednesday it felt like that. and so we and we wandered around the halls. There were lots of people. There are a couple of very long lines, lines to get ⁓ t shirts and such. ⁓ and but we ⁓ Steven and Gubbins were showing me around saying, ⁓ hey, here's look for here and this is what they are, and this is how we get to ⁓ the block party, this is how you get to Lucas Oil, all of that kind of stuff. And so that was great. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ that was ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: The well you talked about that it f you you you said it felt like some of the other events you've done in the publishing industry in the past. Is there was there a moment where you were kinda like, Okay, this is unlike any convention I've ever attended?

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. So the next day, Thursday, and the we got there I want to say 1030ish. ⁓ so after the the running of the nerds, as they say, as they call it, ⁓ so the walked in and so and there were just so many more people. So if AWP is twelve thousand, let's say, and Gen Con is seventy four, that's six times the number of people, right? Plus or minus.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Jane?

 

James Engelhardt: And going into those halls, immediately you felt it. Because I'm used to AWP having like six or seven hundred exhibitors, but they're little bitty booths for like MFA programs or for publishers, for little bitty journals, for this and that, right? And this was and people would wander through. It was great. Sometimes it might get a little congested, but you could move through. Here it was just like inch. Inch. inch and you were just kind of moving slowly. And the vibe was the the only other times I've been in those have been at like ⁓ music festivals. And people are usually like, hey, you know, you can smell things in the air that make people feel a little more mellow, you know, and everybody's just like, Cool. Got my beer, just moving along. So there was no but no beering, you know, at ⁓ ten thirty in the morning that I'm aware of. ⁓ I'm sure somebody was hooray for them. But ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Probably over at Paverson Games with distilled.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, yeah, or Looney Labs doing it or whatever they do. ⁓ and so we were moving slowly, moving slowly, and that was like okay, this is weird. ⁓ just so everybody just, you know, barely inching, barely inching, like, okay. But everybody is polite. ⁓ they're really kind to each other. And I think that I mean I look at social media and there were plenty of instances of people not being kind to each other, but the it felt like the vast majority of it was people just saying, hey, we're here for this. this good time for this weird niche thing that we all pursue. And let's just, you know, be be good and be kind. ⁓ when we first walked in, we walked in near the Stonemeyer ⁓ booth, which was quite big. And they had the I'm looking at your picture over there. So they had Duel of Meloch, and they had ⁓ yeah, and they've got ⁓ wingspan pockets over here too. Yep. And people were just throwing money at them, basically. It was pretty fantastic.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Uh-huh. Did did you get a chance to speak to Jamie? Okay.

 

James Engelhardt: Did not see him. ⁓ he had a lot of booth staff and the the booth was large enough that there was an inner room that was sort of built there where people staffed stuff. Yep. And I think he was having meetings and so on. So ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yep. Yep. Yep. percent. I mean that's I can imagine having, you know, I've gone to shows like large computer based shows. Like ⁓ I guess they're now we used to call it ⁓ CES or I guess it is still called CES, but we also had one called Infocom back in the day that I think has kind of come into that. But you would come to these things and these booths would have extremely high production values and they would change from year to year. So I can I'm just sort of imagining that when you were describing the the Stonemeyer booth.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. ⁓ Stonemire, North Star, Asmode, Hasbro had a gorilla footprint sort of in the middle of things. ⁓ they had this ⁓ fun ⁓ dexterity game. You know the the ring game where you've you've got a ring and you kinda sling it on a it's on an a a wooden arm and you're trying to hook it on a little hook? Yep. So they have a new version of this that has

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. Yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: sort of little arms poking out all the way up and down a central tower and you're s you're s sliding it around and so it's wrapping around and trying to catch something there. So they had about, I don't know, ten of those set out and people were you know throwing rings at each other. ⁓ yeah. And so there were the other ones that were really big. ⁓ I mean there were a couple of other restoration games and and so on, right? But the the other ones with big footprints were the s ⁓ game ⁓ table companies. There were five or six of those it seemed like. And they just had tables. And you like you go over, hang out and see what the all the tables were like with their many different things, yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Berkey there. name toppers.

 

James Engelhardt: I don't remember. Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm. My asthmata was huge. ⁓ So the other thing is that the hall, the sort of ⁓ there was the exhibits hall, and then there was another demo hall. ⁓ and these were both, you know, ⁓ you've you've been to big shows, you know what this kind of space is like. And

 

Joe Mahaffey: Okay. Yeah, no worries. Just curious.

 

James Engelhardt: But it was funny because you could go to the booth and they would show you like here is this ⁓ trick-taking ⁓ game with ⁓ worker placement element. Let's just grab words out of the sky. And but if you want to play the whole thing, go over to the demo hall. They we've got a table over there, right? And then you could sit down and play and they have people there teaching you the things.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Got it. Got it. Well while we're on the topic of booths, was there was there a booth that just made you stop in your tracks and you were like, I gotta go over here?

 

James Engelhardt: Yes. ⁓ n not particularly, just because I kind of Yeah, there were there were there was nothing that was like, ⁓ my you know, like there's a live dragon or something, right? There were ⁓ they had there was ⁓ Yeah. Out in the ⁓ dealer's hall they had a ⁓ at the demo hall rather, they had a couple of like big demo areas and there was a DC one that had a big ⁓ sort of half circle coming out of there was a like a life sized

 

Joe Mahaffey: Right. I would have been surprised if they'd have a live dragon.

 

James Engelhardt: Batman, I guess what other else yeah, so the miniature. So the life size Batman kind of thing and there were a couple of fun sculptures like that around. ⁓ there was a large version of RoboRally with actual robots. That was fun. ⁓ robots probably the size of a Roomba, you know, ⁓ but ⁓ but much more amusing looking. ⁓ as then you would actually program, they had a bunch of laptops up and you could program your moves and then they would actually do the thing and yeah, that was pretty fun.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Mm-hmm.

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ I but a lot of it was just, ⁓ there's Andy Looney in the Looney Labs booth. ⁓ that okay, cool. ⁓ let me introduce you to Dominic Craperchetz. Cool. Right. And so there was that kind of stuff that felt more ⁓ that was more interesting to me than like they had a big dragon or some other sort of splashy thing.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Right, right. Well, so we let's talk about that because you were obviously there with some industry insiders. ⁓ did you get to meet anybody that was sort of on your bucket list of people in the industry to meet?

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. No well, I mean, I'd never thought to go like, ⁓ yeah, I should make sure that I meet, you know, so and so and so-and-so. ⁓ But I did have a great time ⁓ with my conversation with Dominic, ⁓ again from Crabbochette from North Star Games. ⁓ and he's like, Okay, here's stuff that we've got coming up for the next two years from North Star, and here's this ⁓ here's this game that I have that's gonna be probably, you know, Q327, and here's a Pretty early, sort of a mid prototype. Everything was still just like paper and yeah, cubes from other games kind of thing. And so that was, and he's like, let me get your idea about if we're gonna redo wits and wagers, what should we look like? What should the price point be? What do you think? ⁓ and so that was a really fun conversation, just bouncing ideas, and he was just like, talk to me. ⁓ the other fun yeah. Yeah, yeah, ⁓ I should.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. Sounds like we need to invite him on the show.

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ but one of the other funny things talking with him, and we've been talking for a while, and you know me, Joe. And so I, you know, drop an F bomb and he looks at me and he turns to Steven and ⁓ Gubbins, and he's like, This guy. I mean, my people tell me not to not to use this, but this guy comes in here, and I'm like, ⁓ he's like, No worries, I was ⁓ you know, fishing captain. We can use every and so then after that, the whole The vocabulary changed quite quickly, it was pretty funny.

 

Joe Mahaffey: ⁓ James, you're in Indianapolis. A clean and healthy city. Can't be dropping you can't be dropping F bombs in the middle of Indianapolis. What the hey?

 

James Engelhardt: I know. I'm in Greenville, you know? It's ⁓ my goodness. Yeah. So, ⁓ so that was fun. And just if yeah, and the other thing that that struck me ⁓ was so we've got the like the games booths, right? All the games. ⁓ and you're looking at like, ⁓ hey, I wasn't expecting to see this, but here it is. Hooray. And but the the dealer hall had two sections that were devoted to ⁓ One was like entrepreneurs and one was art. And I kept calling it the, you know, just like you just the shoved toward the back of things. It was kind of funny. I was like, So the entrepreneurs were kind of, you know, single-game companies like, I've got this one thing. ⁓ or some of the tables ⁓ were there. ⁓ we all also met a couple of ⁓ people who were ⁓ represented manufacturing companies. Like here's the here's a Chinese company, here's ⁓ one from down the road in the Midwest.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ so I don't think Panda was there, but there were a couple of others. ⁓ yeah. So that was interesting. And then there was also an art section where there were a lot of ⁓ indie publishers and ⁓ self-publishing and art, and then clothes, hats, you know, leather goods, all that kind of stuff. ⁓ and the thing that struck me there was that ⁓ I I kind of think about it this way that like.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Right.

 

James Engelhardt: You've got, you go to your local con, your local rent fair, right? Then it's like 40, 50 people, or the ren fair's got maybe a couple thousand, and it's like, yay, people are putting stuff up, and there's a lot of like crocheted, you know, Cthulhu's and that kind of stuff, right? ⁓ so the very best of those people go to the more like the permanent rent fair in Charlotte or Atlanta, right? And they're there all summer and they've they've got nicer stuff. And then the best of those go to the big

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah, yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: like regional cons. And then the best of those go to the low-key national ones, ⁓ like Geekway, right, or BGG or whatever. There's other ones, right? ⁓ San Diego or whatever. And then the best of those all make at the Gen Con. And so it's fabulous stuff. It's priced ⁓ you know, in accordance with that, but really amazing stuff. Like you want a full on leather duster, ⁓ and they will, you know, in your size, they will do that. And and with these like fantastic leather steampunk hats with goggles sewn to them and all that kind of stuff. It was like, yep. That was three hundred. That'll send you back three hundred fifty dollars, but yeah. ⁓ I got four. No. Yeah. Yeah. No, I it was ⁓ just amazing to actually it was kind of fun to walk past those sections because it all smelled very leathery. And so that's always

 

Joe Mahaffey: Right. So how many moves did you buy? That's on brand.

 

James Engelhardt: That's a nice smell in the middle of a con with lots of people and food and breathing. And you go ⁓ leather. Nice. Yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: So it's an interesting contrast, you know, because when I think about, you know, Mythicon, which of course is nowhere near the scale of Gen Con. But, you know, obviously this is a con where it's really more the industry coming together. obviously the the the players are there and the fans are there, et cetera. But this is really an industry show. Whereas, you know, most of the cons that we've seen locally or I've seen locally, but probably better to say.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Indeed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Joe Mahaffey: are more people playing games than demoing games. There are a few of those. There's a few of those, but there's nothing like on the scale that you just described. I I am curious though about the gameplay that was going on. Did they have like, you know, rooms or big rooms, you know, like when you could just go, Hey, there's a game over here, you sit down and you play, or was it more like Vegas, like I gotta wait for a spot at that table and you know Yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wait for the creepier to do ⁓ just as an excuse to say the word creepier, yeah. So it is it is column A and column B. ⁓ there's a lot of a lot of yes, the industry people meeting each other, talking about the business, but I think the bigger con for that is actually gamma, which is very much just business, business people, you know.

 

Joe Mahaffey: There you go.

 

James Engelhardt: I mean, there's very less, yeah. ⁓ but here, I mean, they were there, and there are people. I'm I mean, I ran into ⁓ and this was the other funny thing. You'd you'd run into these, like, ⁓ Rodney Smith. I watch you watch your videos all the time. He's taller than I expected. ⁓ so is ⁓ Tom Vassal, for that matter. ⁓ and so like you'd see those people and you'd see them like, you know, the media going around to other ⁓ going to ⁓ booths and saying, hey. Here's what we're doing for next season, or something like that. You could kind of hear the pitches and people were talking. Like, okay. So there was a bit of that going on. And, you know, I was there ⁓ with the Spiel Foundation. And so that was a lot of the meetings that I had too, was just hanging around with Steven ⁓ and Gubbins and going to these different also just as a quick aside, Gubbins is a as a dedicated listener. So hey dude, ⁓ great to hang out with you for four days and I hope to see you again. Yeah. And so so the

 

Joe Mahaffey: Love that. Love that.

 

James Engelhardt: There's so much gaming. So much gaming. I mean, it's just everywhere. So there's the demo room, which is again the size of one of those big exhibit hall floors, right? And there's, I don't know, several hundred tables there. And they've got the dedicated, like, this is the blue-orange table, this is the yellow table, this is the, you know, whichever. I'll go on and on and on and on and on. And you go, you sit down, and someone says, Hey, I will teach you. ⁓ Bunny Kingdom Town. Great. And so

 

Joe Mahaffey: I would never get my wife away from that table. Keep going.

 

James Engelhardt: It's such a it's it's a good one too. I I like it. But ⁓ so there's a whole lot of that. And then all of the floor, the playing field of Lucas Oil Stadium is just open gaming. ⁓ so you bring your stuff. I think some of the sections were like, we're gonna have a tournament for this game, and this section is sort of ripped off, but it's a football field, so there's a whole lot of space for people.

 

Joe Mahaffey: No, it's it's it's it's enclosed, right? It has a ceiling. Yeah, that's what I thought. I'd never been there, so

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. ⁓ I touched the playing surface because they they had a square that they had left open so you could go and like it's a you know, it's a mega dexterity game, right? So tens of thousands of people who come to watch out.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Like it's it's it's the inspiration for Blood Bowl. So there you go. So you you casually me you said you casually ran into or you mentioned Rodney and Smith and Tom Bass. Did you get to interact with them at all?

 

James Engelhardt: Exactly. Yes, the Indianapolis Colts right there. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Not r Rodney had handlers. It was pretty funny. There are a couple people like, hey, we're going this way. ⁓ and I saw Vassal and he didn't I mean he was just wandering around. ⁓ but I mean it's you know, the hat and the colorful shirts kind of stuff, and it's like, ⁓ yeah, it's Tom Vassel, hey dude. ⁓ I didn't feel any need to talk to Tom Vassil. let's see. So ⁓ and then ⁓ the all the colors of the meeple folk.

 

Joe Mahaffey: ⁓ okay. Okay. Sure.

 

James Engelhardt: There a bunch of folks, actually. You just sort of bounce around the corner and go like, ⁓ hey, look, here you are. You've jumped off of my laptop screen and now I'm talking to you. ⁓ so I didn't I'm trying to think of any I mean I know they were just sort of all around again, and there were like, you know, close to seventy five thousand people, their things disappeared into the into the corners. ⁓ let's anybody else, yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: of curiosity, do we were were were Felicia Day and Will Wheaton there? Cause they've got that new show coming on Caludo.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, and they were supposed to be. I didn't see them. ⁓ I did run into Stephen Bonacore and Jeff Engelstein, which was yep, ⁓ Stephen Bonacore was dressed as ⁓ Frodo, or maybe Bilbo, and ⁓ Jeff was dressed as ⁓ Gandalf. So we're walking through ⁓ one of the corridors, going to a different meeting, and Jeff Engelstein says, Steven. And but he he's got the giant hat. Almo like down to his eyes. And then he's got the white beard stuff like up to his nose. So you really could not see who this was. You're just like, The hell is this? Yeah. ⁓ but we did get a chance to s say hey to Steven, ⁓ and Jeff, but just like very quickly as they were going off to you know, they have their their new game out, so they were dressed up for it and doing fun stuff. So yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Got it. So

 

James Engelhardt: And so well, you were gonna I'm gonna go back to the gaming, the open gaming thing, because there's Lucas Oil Stadium, there's the demo hall. And anywhere you went around there, like in the lobbies of hotels, we had somebody teach us ⁓ the ⁓ wingspan pocket just at a high table ⁓ at a coffee area in a hotel. There they had you know they just bought it, open it up, and I think this is part of the charm of Gen Con, right? You buy the game you always wanted or that you've been looking at a lot.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. Yeah yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: Open it up and just start playing. So like, ⁓ yeah, here's how this is all happening. This is like, ⁓ okay, cool. ⁓ and then so that was and maybe that's one hotel away. And there's little ⁓ like all those conference rooms that you see in hotels, right? Little breakout rooms that's you know, 20 feet people or so. Those are all booked for games as well. And then we get to two hotels away, the JW Marriott, not just the Marriott, the JW. You go to the JW, and there's and there's a giant ballroom with

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. Yeah, it's the fancier one.

 

James Engelhardt: Five like all of Mythicon in this room just playing it. We're we're now two hotels away. We've passed thousands of people playing games. We left Lucas Oil Stadium and the demo hall, and there's still five hundred people in a room. And it felt more like a sort of regional, you know, large regional con where it's like, you know, here's the little flight that says, We would like another player, or you know, I have this game and I would like to teach it kind of thing. So that's sort of setup. ⁓ so yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Right.

 

James Engelhardt: Gaming, gaming, gaming, gaming, yeah. So much open gaming, yeah. It was very much the vibe for the and you could do so many different things too. So you might be into tabletop games, that's great. You might not have a chance to play Kingdom Death. So here you're gonna sit down and play Kingdom Death or ⁓ Wonderland's War or Twilight Struggle or Twilight Imperium, many other Twilight games. so it's just there to do. And people are just like, yeah, let's do this. Or you could find yourself in an RPG section and you're just gonna spend four days playing maybe the same RPG, a really deep dive one, or just a bunch of little bitty ones, or and so you like Gen Con feels like the ⁓ the parable of the the blind man and the elephant, right? Where you know your your Gen Con will be very different, like s it's not like You go to AWP, you go to a an you know, n some other ⁓ you know, conference, and you're like, Okay, I'm pretty much I might tailor things a little bit here or there. Here, just entirely different experiences. You'd spend your whole time playing true dungeon. ⁓ that'll send you back a change. But ⁓ yeah. And people do, and they they dress and they just like, I'm in for true dungeon, and poof. You don't see ⁓ again for four days. It's fine.

 

Joe Mahaffey: That's the only reason I'm here. Wow. Wow. Well, I mean, when you've got that kind of scale, you know, seventy five thousand people, which is typically think about that, that's typically a collegiate or NFL football stadium worth volume, right? and everybody has, you know, this to be this such a cohesive hobby, there's a lot of segments to this hobby, you know.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Joe Mahaffey: That ⁓ you you've you've called out some of that worker placement, ⁓ the the D stuff or the the tabletop role-playing game is probably the better way to say it. And then of course there's the the magic, the glass the gathering class game. I'm sure there are many, many others. I I would imagine that there was probably ⁓ a ⁓ a whole area segmented just for that.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. ⁓ there were so many booths of ⁓ card resellers. And they're and they were big booths. ⁓ and they're like, Yep. So, you know, they had different card games, but magic was definitely front and center and big displays of like, here's this card, you know, you want to and it's you know renting from like here's a dollar for this pack of, you know, something in brown paper to, you know, here's three fifty three hundred and fifty bucks for this one card, right? So

 

Joe Mahaffey: Mm-hmm.

 

James Engelhardt: And there were at least four or five of those as well. And I was like, wow. And always thronged. Like people were around this the whole time. And I thought, well, that is not my experience of this hobby, but man, yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, you know, it's funny, I I ran into somebody yesterday at the grocery store who was wearing a Twitch shirt and ⁓ we were kind of talking about it and and he was explaining to me in front of his wife that ⁓ he has recently taken up Magic the Gathering and I looked at her and I said, I'm sorry. There is a twelve there is a twelve step program for him out there somewhere. ⁓ no, they were a very nice couple. ⁓ enjoy talking to them. but so you spent much you spent much of your time, or at least some of your time

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ no. ⁓ lovely. Mm-hmm.

 

Joe Mahaffey: in on the industry side instead of just playing games. And I'm just kind of curious, you know, what did that look like to kinda pull back the curtain and and and take a look from that perspective? 'Cause I don't know if everybody that goes to Gen Con kinda gets that lens on on things if they're just going there as a fan of games. So talk about that.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, it was really interesting. Well, one thing that was really funny was hanging out with industry people, ⁓ with game designers and publishers was pretty much anytime like something so you would say, like Laura and I were both writers, and we'll say something kind of funny or hear something kind of funny and go, ⁓ that's a great title for a book or a poem or a short story or a or an album or a band or whatever, right? And for this group, it's always games. ⁓ that's a good title for a game. Or, ooh, hey, we're standing in line trying to get these things. I wonder if there was a way that we could take a

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, just

 

James Engelhardt: Take this and turn it into a game, because then you're moving people along this thing. And like it was constantly, that was just the default kind of ⁓ engagement with the world was how does this could I use this too? What about this game? Could it be part of like ⁓ and so that was really fun? ⁓ the other is I mean, and if if you've done project management, this makes perfect sense. But they're thinking two, three, five years out, right? It's not like, you know, the the games that you're looking at now. They stopped working on three years ago. And but now they're here at the con, and you're like, ⁓ shit, right, we have to we have to teach ⁓ size-wise or whatever, right? ⁓ this is what happens ⁓ when again, Laura and I do readings. It's like, I left all of these poems by the side of the road two years ago, and now I'm here you know talking about them, right? So there's a lot of that. ⁓ and just how much like again, talking with Dominic, like. I'm just interested in what p ideas people have. Like, tell me more stuff because I'm like, I have this idea. How do you think that sounds? And just the kind of way that everything gets workshopped ⁓ pretty intensely. So we were playing this prototype that he had, kind of a space game. And he was like, okay, is this there? You can put it here and you'll get this thing, and go, you'll get a one or a two or a three. And we saw one card that had a ⁓ one scratched out and a Two. And he's like, Yeah. I said, ⁓ I see you haven't quite figured this out. He's Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think two is right either. I Well, one and a half is weird. He was like, Yeah, no, we can't it can't, yeah. Can't be one and a half. But ⁓ so so that was really interesting, just the how fluid all of this stuff is. When I'm seeing and hearing ⁓ publishers and designers talking about like, ⁓ yeah, that survived, or yeah, that wasn't. That rule that everybody's, you know, tripping over in the rule book was supposed to come out, you know, it wasn't supposed to be there, and now we're like, ⁓ I can see how that happens. ⁓ and also the margins are not great, you know? ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, this is No, no.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Sure. That doesn't surprise me. I don't think people get into this to get rich. But ⁓ d with that as a backdrop though, and kind of the people that you were around, was there one conversation that you wished every aspiring designer or publisher could have overheard?

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. I I'm gonna go hmm. Gonna go back to the to Dominic again, just because it was so open and ⁓ his passion for it was really strong. So he was telling a story about ⁓ his parents live in France. You know, Gabouchette is not a particularly yeah, not a particularly English name, right? ⁓ and they're getting olderly elderly and ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Hello. Right. Olderly, elderly. That'd be a name for a game. Olderly. That'd be a great name name for a game.

 

James Engelhardt: They like to play games, elder older elder elderly. Older elderly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly so. ⁓ yeah. So he's ⁓ like I want to have games that I publish that I can play with my parents. And so yeah. And just the ways that ⁓ you're there the you can be very

 

Joe Mahaffey: And get into the vi sorry, please continue.

 

James Engelhardt: Commercial at these things, right? I want to have games that just that are very narrowly focused. This is what they do and this is what I do. Perfect. ⁓ but there are also just these passions that can come up. And I think paying attention to those and listening to sort of him talk about this, like develop like ⁓ a new line of games based entirely on this experience and this kind of passion ⁓ was really the like he I would imagine, you know, they're expecting some commercial success out of this, but also just pursuing it because you know it's ⁓ it's a vision, I think was a really nice ⁓ experience, a really good conversation and not just good to hear and learn. And also the I mean, a lot of people want to give back, right? So ⁓ Conway runs the Spiel Foundation, which is a a charity that puts together game bundles and sends them to ⁓ boys and girls clubs, ⁓ children's hospitals, ⁓ you know, retirement communities, different groups, all kinds of different groups. and watching people like, yes, like within the first like 30 seconds, there's like, yes, how can I participate in that? ⁓ I mean, and there are good business and tax reasons to do this as well, but also just the no, we want the games in these people's hands. ⁓ Because because people should have games and have good games, right? You don't want, you know, your eighty-six year old grandmother being forced to play life again.

 

Joe Mahaffey: That's fair. That's fair.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah. ⁓ so that was that was really ⁓ just a sort of fantastic take on the and again, I mean, if I were going around with somebody else, would I have different conversations? Absolutely, but it was great to be part of this kind of ⁓ nonprofit work and meeting people and talking about generosity, and that was just a fantastic experience.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, we'll have to talk offline about that because I you know we've got that ⁓ my ham club has that event coming up at Levine Children's Hospital. So we'll talk about that offline because we're gonna stay on topic with Gen Con here. but ⁓ I'm throwing that out there just in case the Spiel Foundation is listening. It will not be a surprise. no, but I think ⁓ so having experienced this from

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ yeah. Yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Different lenses. You've, you know, as a g as a player, as seen the industry, ⁓ sort of behind the curtain, so to speak. And then of course, the whole lens on the nonprofit. You know, did it come away? With did it change your perspective on the hobby at all? Did it give you a ⁓ a different feel for just, you know, being in this hobby? Just just I'm just curious if it changed your perspective. I guess is really the the question that I'm trying to ask.

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. So years ago when I was working at Prairie Schooner, I was the managing editor there. And people would, authors would call up, others would call up and they would they would say, Hey, you know, ⁓ could I speak to you know James Enkelhart? It's like, that's me. Like, what? You're answering your phone? Like, yeah, there's just two of us, like me and Hilda, that's it. You know? and so getting a sense of ⁓ how small these companies are, like. They might sound like a great deal of success and they're very successful companies, but for this field, success can be just a small group of four or five people or even fewer, right? ⁓ and so walking into these booths and saying, that's ⁓ wow, it's you know, there's Andy Looney selling people, you know, teaching people how to play flocks, right? And you're like, ⁓ that's just how Small this is. And also I think how passionate ⁓ the makers and you know publishers are about this ⁓ was also just really lovely. Like to see, you know, again, these people who are running these companies working the and sometimes they weren't necessarily as hands-on as as Andy Looney, right? But they would be there to meet people, to talk to people, and if you didn't know. It was, you know, Andy Looney. If he didn't know it was Dominic Krappuchats. If he didn't know it was I ⁓ met a guy, ⁓ Ian, whose last name escapes me. His game is coming out from Captain Games, and he was the guy leading the w at the booth at it was the ⁓ they are distributed through Asmoday. So he's at the Asmoday booth, he's got a little table that's for his game. He's like, Here's how you play this game. And it's just ⁓ I think that kind of accessibility ⁓ was was really fun and really great to see. And like, hey, we can just I mean you you hear these stories and then you see and go, ⁓ yeah, no, that actually is entirely like that. They're just gonna be there walking through their games and with their ⁓ with their passion, with their love ⁓ for the game and for the whole ⁓ industry. That was pretty exciting.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, you know, that's that's for for me, just to kind of hear it and see it through your words, so to speak. ⁓ it sounds like it was was very intriguing. But now that you've experienced it, number one, would you go back? And number two, what would you do differently?

 

James Engelhardt: So, ⁓ yes. In a heartbeat. ⁓ I it was ⁓ it I mean, I think part of it is is the sort of larger community around you as well, because you're thinking, I mean, people in these, you know, amazing costumes and just sort of being their most out there self, which was super fun. Just nobody's, you know, ⁓ you know, you're dressed as fill in the blank, some anime character, or ⁓ there were a lot of dungeon caller carls. or Gandalfs. There were two different Thors, one the Marvel Thor, one the like, you know, Norse Thor. And and people just like, that looks great. And it's it's the same kind of thing you generally get at a at a run fair, right? But just like all of us there from all across the country with all different Yeah. ⁓ so so definitely going back, yeah, would be a thing I would like to do. ⁓ what would I do differently? I think I don't know. I think it would be fun to actually like do the demos more. That was kind of like, ⁓ yeah. Or go BGG had the hot games room and maybe go up there and see what what's going on. ⁓ participate a little bit more on that sort of gamer side of it. ⁓ on the other hand, I wouldn't mind going back and meeting all the people again too. Those are really it was those are really great conversations.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. Well, you know, we talked about some of the people that you met either in the meetings that you were at or the different booths, but did you just have any like random encounters with other gamers and you had a conversation and you made ⁓ a connection, not in a creepy way, you know, just a connection like, Hey, you know

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha. ⁓ well, I mean so my first day on Thursday, I went in my newly purchased ⁓ Searsuccer suit and ⁓ I got a lot of folks just wandering up and going, Love the suit. That's fantastic. So ⁓ I think I had a and then I had a ⁓ it was a game game ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Were you channeling Tennessee Williams or what were you doing?

 

James Engelhardt: I'm just looking, you know, like I look little different. ⁓ and then I had a a Game Pieces t-shirt on underneath it. And people would like, ⁓ hey, wait, is that that and that that? And so we had, you like, ⁓ look, Gus the Pieces ⁓ kind of game itself going on. ⁓ so that was fabulous. ⁓ and just like that was the kind of thing that you would expect to happen, right? People just wander in your life. If you had a a costume of any sort, mine was just like, you know, a fancy southern suit and they had things to say, so that was great. ⁓ talking with I mean the other thing that like I don't know the guys who were walking past like ⁓ is that Wingspan Pocket? Like, yeah, hey, come over here, we'll show you how it works. And I think that kind of then the the guys at the yellow booth, ⁓ that was fun. because or the demo table as people were playing Bunny Kingdom Towns and just like walking you through and going, ⁓ watch this and this and okay, and you can just hover. And they're cool. Yeah. And you can ask questions. And then checking out at the yellow booth, ⁓ with a copy of ⁓ Bunny King in town, ⁓ which also had a five dollar upgrade pack. So you could grab that and grab the like geek up the bits kind of things. So that was fun. But then ⁓ they are of Girls from France and you know, talking to them briefly in French, they were just like, ⁓ my god. Yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: So so let's talk about that. I you know, obviously this this was at a this was an expense. ⁓ travel there and the ticket and, you know, meal stuff. All that's just we'll just call that table stakes. How much lighter how much lighter was your wallet because of the things that you purchased at the at Gen Con?

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Well ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: You don't really have put that in financial terms. You could just can maybe tell us some of the things you bought.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so one of the things that they've got is an auction and ⁓ consignment room. And again, it's it's a big ballroom space. and the ⁓ auction, people people just donate stuff to the auction. ⁓ and then people also hook up with the consignment room. So you can get all kinds of different stuff. The auction was some of it tended to be pretty cheap, like five and ten bucks a pop. ⁓ there was something that had a it was connected to Gygax, and I think that went up for like 400. Everybody applauded afterwards. Yay. ⁓ so the consignment shop had like if there were gaps in your collection from five, three to five years ago, ten years ago, even twenty, like on a deep cut, that would be the place to go. The first time we walked past it, it had, you know, the human corral thing going about four lanes deep. ⁓ And then I picked up a 3M game there. So from back in the probably early 70s, I'm guessing is the thinking man's football. So I found that. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ Steven, ⁓ someone else had pointed out to Conway and he was like, Hey James, do you see ⁓ So I went back and picked that up. So that was good. ⁓ and then yeah, I've got ⁓ some fun stuff over here. Let's see. ⁓ I bought Pandasaurus games, so now I have the Pandasaurus tote, which Very excited by. I just dropped. I know I I think it was just a little game too that I got. ⁓ no no, maybe not. It Greyline, which is not so little a game. Actually, back there. ⁓ which is a remake of Spirium, which is something I had a game that I had thought about a lot in the past and then went out of print, but now it is back. William Attia, who designed Kalos, has brought this. Orloy, which is about let see if I can. Trying to do this like in the screen. Wow, I'm losing tra losing control. There we go. All right. So Orloy, which is just a beautiful looking game about the ⁓ the central clock in Prague. So that's fun. ⁓ Forest Shuffle, Smoky Mountains. We've been big fans of Forrest Shuffle. Smokey Mountains is a twenty minute drive from here, so felt like that needed to happen.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. There you go. Yep, that that's a good one.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah. ⁓ Pirates of the High Teas, which you're a you're a pirate and you are trying to you're competing to serve your pirate captain the best tea, and crumpets and all of that kind of stuff. ⁓ so that looks pretty fun ⁓ and very silly. And ⁓ I was I keep telling anybody who will listen that the next one needs to be pirates of the high teas with an E at the end and it's all about pirate hairstyles. B fifty two kind of look is what we're looking for, right? ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ let's see here. And Money Kingdom Town and ⁓ Wingspan Pocket we have chatted about.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yes.

 

James Engelhardt: Inkwell, there's this ⁓ DVC Games that does that sized box. Like they're all ⁓ little bitty boxes with the ⁓ magnetic snap on it. So that's kind of fun. But that is about ⁓ illustrated man ⁓ illuminated manuscripts ⁓ in e the island of Iona in Ireland, like the 11th century, twelfth century, that kind of stuff. ⁓ so the Book of Kells, right?

 

Joe Mahaffey: Mm-hmm.

 

James Engelhardt: And you've got it's kind of recipe fulfillment and and drafting. So you're drafting these different colors to put on your manuscripts. I think of it as sort of Azul Plus, ⁓ where you're it's sort of similar, you're grabbing stuff and putting them on patterns on your board, ⁓ but with a couple more challenges sort of rolled in. So that was fun. ⁓ and it's a that game company, it was a student who discovered one of their games for an assignment in my class and said, Look at this. And I was Well, who is D V C Games? And they have all kinds of good stuff. ⁓ they also have a game that I picked up called Rosetta, which is about ⁓ developing a language. So you're trying to communicate and you're how you got a little dry race boards and you're writing s ⁓ symbols back and forth to each other to figure some, you know, communicate.

 

Joe Mahaffey: That's very cool. So

 

James Engelhardt: It is, it's very cool. Little bitty boxes. Yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Love it. Anything out of this experience that will influence the next time you do your your ⁓ May X?

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ Rosetta. I definitely got the Rosetta game for them. ⁓ and there are Central Michigan University Press was there. They do ⁓ more aca academically driven games. ⁓ they have one on the hydrologic hydrologic cycle. Okay. ⁓ th they have one called ⁓ Rising Waters. ⁓ also I guess part of the hydrologic cycle, but it's a it's a ⁓

 

Joe Mahaffey: Calmu.

 

James Engelhardt: Based on Mississippi floods in the 1920s, the fall of 26, spring of 27, ⁓ that really kind of devastated an African-American community that was living in that del in that ⁓ river valley. And so, I mean, so these are the kinds of games that they do, right? ⁓ and they've got one about how religions develop. So I will be getting Furman to buy that one for me. I was like, wait a minute. I can get ⁓ if I'm gonna get this from my May X, let's do that. ⁓ but also

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well, did you make any connections that ⁓ sorry, finish your thought.

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. And they have they also had a couple of ⁓ they were there, they were also repping MIT or maybe MIT Press was on the other side. Regardless, there were a couple of other books. I'm like, I need to buy these for, you know, the essays that are incl included. So there was a bunch of that. And I think also just telling students that that it is kind of a small world in terms of games, like again, you can wander up to the you know, Looney Labs table and just start chatting with Andy Looney. He's just gonna be there, right? And how small this that kind of space is. ⁓ and also I'll be able to tell them that there's weird shit out there. ⁓ like scented dice. There was a scented table, there were lots of tables with dice, and the scented dice table, they had a lot of people at that booth. And I was like, Okay, this feels like all right. All right. Yeah. So ⁓ Yeah, I think th I those would be the things. ⁓ finding some more challenging and interesting games for the students that kind of make them think about what games can possibly do. ⁓ and not just not just I mean, they're all fun and games, right? It's awesome, but there's also things that it can make you think and engage. And so that I'm looking forward to bringing to them.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Did you make any connections that are aware of what you do with May X and you know, might be good networking opportunities for you?

 

James Engelhardt: Yep. in particular there was a ⁓ another ⁓ nonprofit out of Seattle. ⁓ and they were very interested in in the academic side of things too. They were leaving Gen Con. Gen Con ends on Sunday, on Wednesday the Sirius Play ⁓ conference started in ⁓ at Duke. And it travels around, but it was a it's a is it Duke. You know, Durm. Durm.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Wow. Darm.

 

James Engelhardt: ⁓ so they were up there. ⁓ so meeting up and talking with that, ⁓ and showing them like the book cover a lot, like, ⁓ okay, cool. So ⁓ yeah. Thank you, thank you. But that was a that was yeah. Yep. ⁓ the ⁓ then the funny thing about the book is usually I'm at like academic conferences and I have to explain games, the poetry they're cool with.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Congratulations on you, by the way. I've I've seen a number on Facebook from Laura. Yeah.

 

James Engelhardt: Here, they're like, games, got it. Poetry? Wow, I just don't I don't meet somebody who does poetry. Yeah. So that was kind of fun. There's kind of a funny flipping of the s ⁓ the script there, but yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Yeah. And as long as you've found something that rhymes with meeple.

 

James Engelhardt: Because that's what you always have to do. I have to find rhymes for scented dice now is what I read.

 

Joe Mahaffey: ⁓ that's exactly Well, I know we're I know we're coming up on time, so I don't wanna I don't wanna cut you off, but if there is there any you know last ⁓ comment or perspective on Gen Con you wanna just make sure that you got out in this particular episode?

 

James Engelhardt: Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, it's such a wild and ⁓ fun community. ⁓ lots of I mean, so much people ⁓ expressing themselves in their cosplay and just geeky shirts. It was all it was always weird when if you saw somebody with like ⁓ khakis and a button down, you're like, Where did they wander in from? And that's kind of a f right, it's kind of a funny moment, we're like, Yeah. The dentists are meeting, I guess at the next, yeah. so that that was really the funniest was like, ⁓ no, I you know, we're just here to bl let our freak flags fly, right? ⁓ and and just the way then that the community of Indianapolis has embraced that. I mean, we're going past ⁓ we generally parked near a ⁓ kind of a sports bar, and so they had you know all the big screen TVs, even outside or very close to outside, right? And when we were there They were running like ⁓ live plays and like game tournaments and you know, like so they had their they had their baseball going on, but then also yeah, the guy with the books and dice and rolling and stuff. So that was super fun. ⁓ and like fun t-shirts, the I'm not procrastinating, I'm doing side quests. That was great. The Dadelorian. And again, everybody's just like, got it, that's awesome. And again, you don't have to explain it, people just laugh. So and I think that that ⁓ energy, that ⁓ that sense of community was really, really fantastic to experience and to hang out with for four days.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Awesome. Well, it sounds like it was an amazingly rewarding experience. It sounds like it is an event that you will take with you and it sounds like an event you'll go back to. And obviously I've got to figure out how to get it on the docket for for next year. think we have to start planning for it now. Yeah. All of that. you know, but I I think ⁓ it's definitely something that I would like to experience for sure.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah. Indeed. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it is kind of like that, yeah. Mm-hmm. And there will be there will be more hotel space next year, so yeah.

 

Joe Mahaffey: Well very cool. Well, There will be. I'll I'll have to think through that. I 'cause I kinda like the idea of I mean, I know you stayed with friends, but I kinda like the idea of an Airbnb than a hotel. Just because, you know, it makes it easier to go and come and go on your own time and schedule, et cetera. Anyway, just a thought. Just a thought. Well. ⁓ we will be back in two weeks with a new episode. ⁓ it may drop a day or two later.

 

James Engelhardt: There will be. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It does, it's true. Mm-hmm. Excellent. Mm-hmm.

 

Joe Mahaffey: ⁓ just because, well, if you were here on the last episode, you're there was a spoiler alert. So I'm gonna make you go back to that episode to figure out what the spoiler alert would be. But we might just be a day or two later putting out our next episode. But we will be putting out on schedule every two weeks. ⁓ now that the lazy podcaster and me has been cured by the wonderful folks at Riverside ⁓ dot fm, ⁓ I can just click, click, click publish. Love it. Makes my life so much easier. Doesn't mean that there aren't defects in the audio quality from time to time, and it doesn't mean that the transcripts are not per are perfect and all that stuff. But you know what? This is all about the publication, not the we're not doing this for any other reason than we love the hobby. So with that, I am Joe Mahaffey, and I am not bored. I am bored gaming.

 

James Engelhardt: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I'm James Engelhart and I hope that all your tiebreakers break your way.

 

Joe Mahaffey: We'll see you in a few weeks, folks.

 

James Engelhardt: And bye.